And even it wasn't quite as dynamic as the 2CE or 2Ci from earlier in the 1990s. Discuss pros and cons. And he discarded the Radian designed crossover with an autoformer of his own devising. Contact us to discuss your system needs, we look forward to meeting you >> HIGH FIDELITY Natural life-like Performance HIGH SENSITIVITY 94 dB to 102 db 2 to 300 Watts HIGH VALUE Stunning for their Price+ (UREI 809A). What modifications has Frank done to the Radian 5215? What is truer? Every speaker design is a compromise. Stehno, the 1st order crossover alignment, which consists of a single capacitor between drivers is a 90 degree phase alignment. Traditional crossovers use resistors to match different sensitivities of low- mid, and high-frequency drivers. Too bad that driver is only like 84 or 85dB sensitivity. Is this time thing clearly audible . Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser. The crossover: Two elements; one iron core inductor which is specially designed and build in-house. When I heard PWK talk at a hi-fi shop many years ago he said he admired stats for their low distortion. As a result, the cabinet size of the Retro 15s is about half the size of the La Scala, which is massive. THAT is the crux of the matter. Sounds like you want some Unity's, Terry. If, say, a single positive pulse is run thru the speaker system, then a single positive pulse from all drivers should arrive at the listening position at the same exact instant from the drivers with no ringing or images or echoes from baffle diffraction, ect, just as if a single perfect driver was the source. At the time of writing this review, Ive enjoyed the speaker for a year. It's what makes this "Hobby" so great. What I love about the Devialet, however, is that it is dead quiet. This will vary depending on the size and frequency range of the driver. They also have issues similiar to what was mentioned in a post above in regards to a 6db filter requiring a broader overlap of frequencies for its drivers except the electrostatic is trying to make a diaphragm work at most frequencies equally well which it won't. And expensive. You must log in or register to reply here. Bookshelf Speakers. The Kestrel filled a niche in the marketplace: for a two-way floorstanding design, with good bass extension and dynamics, that was affordable, forgiving, and easy to drive. was probably the best of the bunch (the B&W was 12, too small), but they were matched with the Magnepan 3.7i, a brilliant and exceedingly frustrating speaker. Unsound---they lied! Can EPI and Dynaco be made time coherent - audiokarma.org Thanks Matt. Some of the Audio Physics and Lowthar(?) Opinions? It is but one aspect. Are full range driver loudspeakers time/phase coherent ? This is what time alignment tries to do. In 2018, Edwin Wong founded the Risk Theatre Modern Tragedy Playwright Competition with Langham Court Theatre to challenge conventional Aristotelian, Hegelian, and Nietzschean interpretation of tragedy. Jim Thiel: A Coherent Source John Atkinson | Mar 16, 1998 There was something odd about the clock on Jim Thiel's office wall. Im interested in the GR10 or 12? My Devialet 120 started off as a Devialet 110 five years ago (purchased in 2013 sight unseen). I can't help but think this design is responsible to a large degree for how the speaker sounds. Full floorstander, as opposed to the Retro 15, which sits on a compact 7 stand. Late night listening sessions are possible with horns. you might ask. And yes, you can use them with horns. Though Coherent Audio is a small Canadian company run by what seems like a husband and wife team, local audiophiles seem to have heard of their speakers. Frank told me that the 18" model really opens up in comparison with the 15" version. This is done with a tape measure and takes a few minutes max. They use patented, ultra steep slope crossovers as their main design concept, which would preclude time and phase alignment. At least right now. Time and phase are also related, they are nearly the same thing but it's possible to be in phase but not time-coherent. I didn't get it at first, other than noting that instead of the minutes being marked off at 12 five-minute intervals, Jim's clock had 24 markings. What's the most musical and coherent 2-way speakers ever made . I love them, but you always are reaching for the volume to turn them higher, and they just soak up the power. JavaScript is disabled. How do they relate to each other? Over the rest of the frequency spectrum that each driver is intended to cover, the phase shift caused by the reactive elements is less than 45 degrees. I just came off of 2 physics websites regarding the speed of sound versus frequency. Time Coherent Topology. There are not that many speakers that produce this good a step response. The horn colouration, if anything is an advantage. The only variable in the speed of sound is the density of the medium(air) which will cause variations according to altitude, and humidity, or barometric pressure. to grasp, even for us in the industry. Are full range driver loudspeakers time/phase coherent ? The PP1.2 utilizes a coincident mid-bass woofer and tweeter mounted in the same axial plane. Figure 21: Example loudspeaker response with reversed tweeter polarity. Deep bass, extended high frequencies, wide sound stage, and precise imaging. by slanting the baffle is easy to grasp. Frank makes fantastic speakers. Stunning sound. Sound wise, its like a horse-blanket. My last two pairs of speakers in my main system were time coherent. The Its been months now since the review, but each time I fire these guys up, I still think, This is the sound of music!, Hi excellent review. This has been noted in Stereophile's reviews of speakers from time to time. Sound Lab U790 ("ultimate" steel frame, seven foot tall panel, 90 degree radiation angle). In the end, I purchased the Coherent Retro 15 Neo Be demo pair from Frank for $11,165 (CAD), shipping included. Are time coherent speakers better ? Thanks, Thanks for responding. The only way to hear natural sound is outside, listening to unamplified music. ", The Shearwater uses a hybrid bass-loading system. Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen. One thing that horns do that no other speaker does is that they sound very lifelike from the next room. The book is called "The Risk Theatre Model of Tragedy: Gambling, Drama, and the Unexpected." Are full range driver loudspeakers time/phase coherent ? Coherent Audio Speaker. With linear vertical alignment of the drivers there will be a somewhat narrow point only in the vertical plane where this occurs that expands with distance while the optimum horizontal position will be unaffected by shifting and noncritically broad. This is a Gold Star recommendation. Steep filters even take most of the trouble out of getting a flat frequency response. But its different bass than the bass from the latest ported speaker designs with multiple low-end drivers such as the Mirage M3 or the GoldenEar Triton References. The Maggies are good at recreating the empty space around the instruments such as the interior space of a cathedral. So the tweeter and the mid-range cannot be phase and time coherent since they each reproduce different frequencies (ie, different wave lengths). Franks speakers are truly a hidden gem. The offerings from Coherent Audio offer a very viable and attractive alternative to purchasing used Tannoy speakers. And since many owners of horn speakers will be using low powered tube amps based on 300B or 2A3 tubes, the bass will have the bloomy tube sound. Efficiency and uniqueness. The Ardens were going for $3000. Frank expressed surprise when I told him I was going to be using the Devialet with his speaker. can see below, if the sound were (for the sake of graphic clarity) a square wave - the listener would not hear a square wave at all. Also Frank wasnt sure what shipping would be to my location. With the Coherent speakers, the midrange is detailed and palpable. If you are, youre always welcome to try out the Parasound on the mighty 15s , Thanks for responding. Richard Bischoff rbischoff 09-14-2002 1:57pm 1 2 3 4 Next Last Vandersteen Bookshelf CT Loudspeaker - Vandersteen Audio High End Speakers Are time coherent speakers better ? At what ? | Page 4 | Audiokarma Such an engaging and palpable presentation. Perhaps even bigger than the Retro 15s, which have a laser focus to their presentation. I seem to remember they sounded rather bland. Of course, conventional box speakers are much less sensitive and need to be paired with big amps to achieve this. Maybe you have heard these or other expressions used for describing a loudspeaker. You might not like his recommendations but his science is correct. Going back through a lot of specs, etc., nobody has ever called an electrostatic time aligned that I can find. order. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Yes, the points of sound origin are offset as with other coax speakers. This happens mostly with classical. Dual resistive ports help room tuning by adjusting low frequencies. 150 Time and Phase Coherent Speakers I wanted to get people's thoughts on time and phase coherent loudspeakers. I offered $2800, but the owner wanted $3000 firm. One thing thats been illuminating from measuring speakers: a big sound isnt the same as deep bass. Both the Cornell physics dept. Localization is right on. The first watt crowd will love the autoformer concept: musical purity favours simpler, lower power designs. How do the Coherent Retro 15s compare to the Magnepan Magneplanar 3.7i? You are using an out of date browser. While both the Coherent Retro 15s and the Klipsch La Scala use horns, the sound from the Retro 15s is more refined. #007: Time Alignment in Loudspeakers "Phase aligned". It has to be precise. A simulation with actual drivers and how to design a 1st order/time phase coherent speaker. I auditioned a used pair (with new surrounds in great condition) driven by McIntosh electronics. What do they do that ordinary box speakers don't ? The drawback is that a fixed listening position (in this case 8 feet) is incorporated into the design, and the speaker needs to be precisely aimed at the listener. Rear wave resonances are tamed by lattice slats inside the cabinet rather than the more commonly seen polyfill insulation. The definitions use freq. Anything that bounces off the magnet assembly and support then back into the cone smears the signal. They claim that this results in deeper and more integrated bass than either sealed or ported designs. One capacitor, Mundorf Supreme or better is also used. Though each link in the audio chain is significant in its own way, we seem to spend more time agonizing over the choice and setup of loudspeakers than any other component. Since the Calypso's binding posts are . Ive never been able to perfectly mate the sub to the mains, though. As you You see, the 5200 series Radian drivers were designed for punishing commercial use. I have Parasound 2250 amp and Parasound 2200 pre. SPEC RSA-717EX (class D), The SPEC did not sound very good with the Coherents, which surprised me because I loved that amp with other high efficiency speakers. Just as they were more refined than the La Scalas (a speaker Id very happily purchase again), the JBL Synthesis K2s were that much more airy in the top end than the Retro 15s. With coaxial speakers it is possible to have proper alignment at more than a point or a plane.With Altec 604 and 605 Super Duplex s, The high freq horn is several inches behind the woofer. Unless I were doing A/B comparisons or listening to electronic music with room shaking bass, I probably couldnt tell if the sub were on or off. I have Model 10 floorstanders with 10 drivers, Good. Curious how long have you owned and how did you discover Coherent? Considering that conventional ported box speakers with 8 or 12 inch drivers can routinely get down to 35 Hz or lower, this doesnt seem so impressive. It took years to figure out the math for their function. Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser. Like Audio Note speakers, these cabinets are designed to resonate. Does anybody know about these last possibilities? The Radian 5215s combine two great technologies. The reason may be that there is a huge (well, huge by audiophile standards) following for Tannoy dual concentric speakers. The lot of these speakers go down to the low 40s before dropping off. The Coherent Audio Speakers are a single driver with a big twist. A flat diaphragm is not timed aligned by looking at its impulse response and other factors. It was a global search until they found the Radian drivers with its unique aluminum material that was developed exclusively for these drivers. Time Alignment in Speakers | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum They are time-aligned. Time coherence - how important and what speakers? and the Nasa physics website stated that the speed of sound in air is constant, and does not vary with frequency. Multiple-driver complexity or two-way simplicity? Decidedly not a "Social" or party speaker, but for solo critical listening, only headphones seem able to compete. I feel the need to try to set the record straight regarding our designs. http://www.l-acoustics.com/products-coaxial-products-25.html, 2-way loudspeakers : phase coherent vs non phase coherent. They are obtained unassembled allowing Frank to modify them for Hi Fi home use. I went from 3-way Klipschorns with passive crossovers, to 2-way Jubilees with signal aligned active crossover. The Audio Note and Sansui sounded great. On the GR and Reference series the crossover is set at 1100Hz. It was my attempt to utilize really excellent sounding drivers, that were not capable of much excursion or power handling. Most importantly, much cheaper drivers can be made to do the job. Coax speakers have their own problems with horn shading of the LF driver's midrange output, horn colorations, driver time alignment, ect. The Coherents go quite loud with as little as 2-3 watts! The La Scalas, on the other hand, tend to grab you more viscerally. Once I was exposed to the time aligned and phase coherent systems, I will not be going back. Can EPI and Dynaco be made time coherent ? The Model 18 was veneered with a high-character wood and the veneered rim around the driver dressed it up with some contrast. Comments appreciated . I ended up selling them. And it digs down to 22Hz (-3dB) it ranked among the. Instruments and voices sound more solid, like they occupy a real space. A year later, his theory of tragedy was published by Friesen Press. With the Coherent speakers, the treble is crisp. Philosophy. TOP OF Some of this stuff can be pretty difficult Both speakers were attached onto a single pallet and shrink wrapped. I've been wondering about this time and phase alignment thing recently. important sentence in this paper). Reflections of that frequency arrive at the listening position with a different timing respectively phasing. or so out in front of the To be able to charge up a room is great fun. With the Magnepan speakers, the bass is, well, different. The rate of this attenuation is referred to as a filters order. It is this phase difference which is referred to as the TIMBRE & its is very characteristic of an instrument, its what makes the guitar sound like a guitar and for that matter an acoustic uitar like an acoustic guitar different from other guitars. Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Al.M said: Howabout VAF-91, Kef Ls50, Wagner MTM kits and you could refurbish your Duntech by finding second hand or spare parts for the tweeter and woofer on eBay or canabilise from other used Dynaudio. Two or three watts of power is sufficient. The speakers probably weigh close to eighty poundsone person can move them, but with difficulty. Hes going to come by for a listen one day.