Thats the problem! However, it stressed that the level still remained below pre-COVID-19 pandemic levels. Like I say, I wouldnt want to be a minster. Evangelical with passion for truth, concern about sin yet an tendency towards legalism. "People come here to share their concerns, to share the good things in life and or share the quite horrible things of life as well. Hello David, Who could in all conscience disagree with any part of what you say. To me the arguments do not even make sense, let alone border on blasphemy. (Of course there are Church of Scotlands which are not like this where the Word is still preached and Christ is still lifted up but the trouble is that these are the exception rather than the rule). God is the poetry of our lives. Guardian 02.02.15 Just ask anyone who has left how the Church has treated them and you will see that all the talk of reconciliation is just that talk. It was literally dying. Share Church of Scotland membership has fallen by 34 per cent in the last decade CHURCH of Scotland membership has fallen by more than a third in the last decade, according to data from the General Assembly . I am a recent convert to Presbyterian(ism) but not a recent convert to Jesus (1979). Thanks for this insightful piece David. So today, Id say the CoS is not a Church it is an association of mixture but it does contain Church. About 60,000 worship in person on a Sunday - down from 88,000 pre-Covid. Does abortion really constitute healthcare? I would, however, have thought that if people have left the C of S they would not want a C of S minister to conduct the funeral, unless it is a particular minister who is a friend. The Lords Supper is a memorial meal of a sacrifice which Rev McKenna explicitly seeks to forget! No No No No. contact the editor here. Thank you for drawing this to broader attention. Church attendance in Scotland falls from 12% to 7% in fifteen years 7) The C of S is in decline because it is confused about Sin Sacrifice means to make sacred.sat at a table with God. I would be interesting if Calvin were to somehow return. The Church of Scotland is theologically Presbyterian and has been the national church of the United Kingdom country since 1690, with its status guaranteed under the 1707 Act of Union of Scotland and England. Reverend David Cameron, a parish minister and the convener of the Assembly Trustees, will present the report. Rev Sally Foster-Fulton was installed on the opening morning of the church's annual General Assembly in Edinburgh. In Melbourne I have observed at close quarters three churches where immigrant communities (Dinka, South African and Farsi) have joined existing churches and both have benefited. She said she was looking forward to meeting and encouraging people involved in church work at local, national and international levels at a time of unprecedented challenge and opportunity. He said: "Some churches will close but that will release a burden on. The Presbytery clerk tells us his reasons for decline. I accept that I dont want liberal interpretation of the Bible, but even the latter can cause funds to flow. My congregation left c of s three and a half years ago. But you are in a Presbyterian church and therefore if there is to be church discipline (one of the marks of the church) then how you handle such heresy being taught in your church, in your name is crucial. Well, the idea of there being no Final Judgement is and isnt unbiblical. In other words the Institution had become more important than God and the Gospel the thing that was revered and so in my eyes the CofS stood guilty of self worship aka Idolatry arguably the worst of all! Ive seen photos of pupils being taught how to use condoms in non-denominational schools, that would never be allowed in an RC school. The Church of Scotland is disintegrating before our very eyes. Who could be against love? Sin was nowhere near it. Again how anyone who has read the Old Testament (try the book of Leviticus if you want to see an association between sacrifice and sin), the New Testament (the gospels, Romans, Hebrews) or any of the early Church Fathers, can argue that sin was nowhere near it, is almost incomprehensible. There will be some difficult conversations at the General Assembly in the coming days about the future of the Church of Scotland. Dr. Scott S McKenna. Here are the ten reasons why the C of S is in decline: 1) The C of S is in decline because it is confused about Biblical theology Scott was asked Do you believe Jesus died for your sins?With grace I replied, no, no, no, nothats ghastly theologyyou dont want to go there. Lets leave aside the observation that if you speak with grace you dont need to tell other people that you are doing it. Ayr, a toon wham neer surpasses , to quote a critic of the Kirk , or at least of its Elders. What an opportunity for the minister to reflect on the meaning of life and the wonders of the gospel, and to make all present at least consider our eternal destiny. While some manses were modern, others were old and hard to heat and ministers had no control over upgrading or insulation. i heard of a boy at another non denominational school who was discriminated against although he was well behaved as his brother had been badly behaved and it was assumed hed be the same, yet when i was at high school, a boy from a very underprivileged background without socks or gym shoes and a tee shirt too small for him the wrong colour demonstrated his prowess in the gym as an example to us, without any comment from the teacher re his appearance. In the event there was no acrimonious split: the congregation left en masse. im not a member of the Church of Scotland but the RC church, which is also in decline, though im not sure if its as bad. We completely agree with you about Scott McKenna, but you should not judge, or appear to judge the whole denomination because of that. May God have mercy on us, and His kindness lead us to repentance. He said to me its only words. It needs to proclaim Christ and his atoning work. Some may think that all of the above is a bit hard. God is the shape we try to make of our lives. The tragic truth, with all respect, is that it is its own ministers who are bringing the house down around their own heads with the distortion and denial of the plain truths of Scripture. The Church of Scotland What the Church gets Wrong (and Right) about Sex, A Welcome in the Hills and a Lesson for the Church, ttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/03/17/im-a-presbyterian-minister-who-doesnt-believe-in-god-2/, Post-Presbyterian Scotland? This latest story sees the same pattern of denial, excuse and defeat being repeated. How many people today exhibit such a sacred , scared attitude ? Calvin believed in the sovereignty of God in all things including the Crucifixion and Resurrection. I was shocked and left. Weve ended up worshipping in local halls whilst the c of s sold the building to an Islamic community. in an RC school, the faith isnt just taught and meat excluded from school dining halls on Ash Wednesday, prayers said etc., its a lifestyle. At that time we were in a period of blessing where the congregation had grown to around 100, 80% of whom were young people who had been drawn by the preaching of the Word. The clerks (executive) dont want to talk about this in front of the Lord High Commissioner or the First Minister on a Monday or Tuesday. Im sure you can let me know if it isnt. The Archbishop, who has been in post since 2013, said the decline in church attendance was something that "personally, I count as failure". And not to get that difference results in terrible confusion. What we got was religion a sung Eucharist for All Saints day and a five minute sermonette on how we should pray for the dead yes! the RC church has a 3 way tie the school, the family and the church or parish. Youd have to go some mind you to be better than your son Andrew who faithfully delivered a great sermon to us a Month or so ago! I respectfully disagree and I claim that what I witnessed with this was nasty. The second incident Required fields are marked *. "And the days of coming to church at half past ten or eleven o'clock in the morning one day a week, and the one-size fits all, that's well in the past so we're just kind of catching up with how life is.". Like I say, I think what we are discussing is symptomatic of what is problematic with the church in Scotland rather than limited to the Church of Scotland and I would point to the quote made by Richard Tiplady, former principle of the International Christian College in Glasgow as affirmation of this. It was petty, vindictive and hateful.. Some time after they embraced SSM PCI in their annual assembly in Fisherwick House voted to cut ties with the mother church CoS. A sad time indeed but one I wholeheartedly agree with. Each church averages just one wedding and one baptism per year - about 1,200 in total. The Church of Scotland has an outdated and quite deceiving system of claiming everyone within the bounds of the parish who are not Catholic as theirs. As a subscriber, you are shown 80% less display advertising when reading our articles. In 60 years, the Church of Scotland plummeted from 1.3 million to 300,000 members. The report explained that the 2021 membership numbers represented 46.6% of what was reported in 2000, while the number of ministers reported last year was 60% of what it was in 2000. Dont go there., If we dont go there we dont go anywhere (my words) I saw another astonishing example of this from sadly yet another Presbyterian church, the PCUSA, which has just voted to redefine marriage. This is like a drowning man clutching at straws. Readers comments: You are personally liable for the content of any comments you upload to this website, so please act responsibly. Would it not have been better to keep Protestant schools as Protestant schools, i.e. Fight on, me boys, and have fun! There were 50,000 per year in the late 1950s. He was killed by the powers that rule the world, not as payment for sinits not there. In a building which could hold a couple of hundred I counted 18 people 16 middle aged and elderly women, 2 men. The Bible says that God is loveit does not say that love is God. It believes, because it needs to believe, that the problem is too many buildings. However, the decision was reached after a full discussion without unpleasantness and with genuine openness. You claim to know that Himmler is in heaven and Frank is in Hell when of course you know nothing of the sort. One in three charges are in vacancy whilst across Scotland the size of almost every congregation is shrinking. I wanted to make a comment on this particular part as, on the face of it, it shows the sort of bullying attitude we see from time to time. His son JJ is currently on Strictly Come Dancing and, as well as coming across as a really nice young man, he is doing well in the competition. Thats why Heinrich Himmler is in heaven and Anne Frank is in hell. That teaching apparently only came about because of Anselm of Canterbury in 1097. The current C of S wallows in semi Pelgianism and O grade Marxism. Are we surprised that such churches are dying? He said the new Seeds for Growth fund, to be launched in October, would fund projects aimed at growing the local churches and creating new congregations. Robbo will probably claim the Bibles on his side, when he means Calvins interpretation of the Bible. Your definition of sacrifice as having nothing to do with sin is completely and diametrically opposed to the clear and plain teaching of Scripture in such passages as Leviticus and many, many more. You can just type in Church of Scotland, or Church in Scotland to the search engine on this blog and you will see that for many years I have been writing about the decline of the Church of Scotland desperately hoping that what I saw was wrong and that my many critics would turn out to be right. But all evidence suggests the ways in which these generations will pursue their search for meaning will not be through a top-heavy religious institution. McKennas Christianity has nothing to do with Christ. It is one of the most astonishing things I have heard in a long time. This message was received by an empty Assembly hall as the Trustees report fitted in after a discussion about hymn numbering etc on Friday morning before the close and then lunch. Yes the truth sets you free but the truth need to be applied introspectively as well as to the other and truth without love is like a clashing gong or a clanging cymbal, not the most excellent way. John Chalmers: We had a debate which made very clear that we were not interfering with our theological definition of marriage and were not going to the place where ministers or deacons could themselves conducting same sex marriages.. Christianity populated by Dominic Crosssan style ministers? But other times I have had to decline because the bottom line was that we could not actually agree on what the Good News actually is. I paid my first visit to Sandyford Henderson Memorial church in Finnieston, Glasgow. I have a few of my own but then I am neither a sociologist or religious so anything I say can likely be taken with a pinch of salt. THe Mormons are not in any sense bible believers. The Church of Scotland Presbytery showed their lack of reality when they refused to let St James stay in their own building and instead pretended to have the old congregation there. This is what happens when you deny the scriptures you end up denying God ttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/03/17/im-a-presbyterian-minister-who-doesnt-believe-in-god-2/. The far more serious issue is the one that is illustrated in this sermon preached by Rev. (Added note: I am writing about the particular situation of the Church of Scotland in Scotland. We should not demand too much of the Kirks General Assembly re this tale of woe after all , this situation seemingly requires a miracle which I doubt the members expect. We have no minister, we have no long term place of gathering, we miss those who could not make the break but we do have much that is more important! One wonders if the Presbytery would now sell the building to Broughty Ferry Presbyterian? It is an extreme example of the liberal cancer which is destroying the life of the Church of Scotland. Is this a chicken-and-egg problem? Thank you David! Then came the Victorian revivals. "The time has come for us to cast our bread upon the water before the last one of us finds it is time to switch off the lights and redistribute what is left to other charities with similar aims.". However, the other figure that shows a marked increase is No Religion & Religion Not Stated ( which one could be reasonably sure a fair percentage of will likely be No Religion.). 2) The C of S is in decline because it is confused about Evangelism Jesus died for our sins, in our place. In another I spoke to the minister who indicated that despite a nominal membership of almost 1,000, she expected to be the last minister because attendance was only 100 70% of whom were women over 70. While I agree with what you say and applaud your addressing of any false teaching with the principle of keeping every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ, demolishing arguments and pretenses that set themselves up against the knowledge of God, I am a little concerned. It is packed with worshippers every Friday. Post moderation is undertaken full-time 9am-6pm on weekdays, and on a part-time basis outwith those hours. Why has the Church of Scotland declined so much? 5) The C of S is in decline because it is confused about Faith Jesus never asked his followers to believe in a creed or in his divinity instead he called them to faith.. Its time to ditch substitutionaryatonement because it obscures the real meaning of faith a forgiveness which is done to usis one which leave us unchanged.. Here is yet another proof of the truth of the Bible. How else can you explain a minister of the New Testament who fails to grasp the most basic teachings of that New Testament? just keep on collecting people who agree with you. But sadly, thats no indicator of truth as many people follow weird stuff. The evangelical element had been demanding the purification of the Church, and it attacked the patronage system, which allowed rich landowners to select the local ministers. Its no coincidence that many successful modern churches (Redeemer for example) rent cinemas, schools or other buildings and are freed from the pressure of replacing slate roofs and leaky pipes. Jesus is waiting at the door to be let in but just as he wept over Jerusalem, he is longing to gather people just as a mother hen gathers her chicks but hes not being allowed. God is the Absolute, the Most Real, our Eternal Lover. Christ told us so. 2018 https://theweeflea.com/2018/09/07/faith-no-more-the-continuing-decline-of-the-church-of-scotland-the-herald/, Iain Montague of the Scottish Centre for Social Research suggested that by becoming more liberal in social attitudes the Church could arrest its decline. Im sure if they had a first Communion (in keeping with the teaching that the bread and wine are symbolic) and parents and Godparents got together, with boys and girls dressed up (differently for girls not like little brides as the reason for that is tied with the RC teaching on marriage and communion), but with a pretty dress or summer frock it would give the children something to look forward to. It would be pointless to list the few stories of hope and growth (which their thankfully are) order to offset the many of decline and decay. Its almost as though they think the denomination is more important than the evangel? Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Indeed one persons triumphalism can be another persons vision. Great use of the bible to correct points of error David! And yet you defend it with whatabouterry , impressions you got from one meeting, and conversations with dog walkers! Calvinists are always no fun. It became a political battle between evangelicals on one side and the Moderates and gentry on the other. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. But what if it is true? However my own rationale for separation and departure was not the media attracted catalyst of SSM etc. You have put the issues squarely and fairly. Why IS Scotland losing all faith in the Kirk? - PressReader At the same time I know what I saw and heard at the meeting I went to and talking of filling church buildings that the CofS are not certainly smacks of triumphalism. In my view this is an obstacle to our evangelism.